[Users] simfs support

[Gena Makhomed]

Hello, All!

openvz_readme.pdf:

"Limited simfs support (feature provided as is). (OVZ-6613)"

https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6613

"Need to remove simfs stub module"

https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6752

"Need to remove simfs stub module"

Status: Open
Priority: Major
Resolution: Unresolved
Fix Version/s: Vz7.0-Update1, Vz7.0-Update-next

============================================================

simfs support will be removed in future versions of OpenVZ ?

--
Best regards,
Gena

[Sergey Bronnikov]

Hi,

there was a mail from Kostya regarding status of SimFS in OpenVZ 7 -
https://lists.openvz.org/pipermail/users/2016-January/006733.html
Yes, OpenVZ 7 has limited SimFS support.

Sergey

On 18:10 Fri 29 Jul , Gena Makhomed wrote:
> Hello, All!
>
> openvz_readme.pdf:
>
> "Limited simfs support (feature provided as is). (OVZ-6613)"
>
> https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6613
>
> "Need to remove simfs stub module"
>
> https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6752
>
> "Need to remove simfs stub module"
>
> Status: Open
> Priority: Major
> Resolution: Unresolved
> Fix Version/s: Vz7.0-Update1, Vz7.0-Update-next
>
> ============================================================
>
> simfs support will be removed in future versions of OpenVZ ?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Gena
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> ***@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users

[Solar Designer]

Hi,

FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:

https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336

Poll: Should @VirtuozzoInc reintroduce simfs support in
#Virtuozzo/OpenVZ 7? If you don't use Virtuozzo/OpenVZ, don't vote.
(With simfs, containers use directory sub-trees on host filesystem(s).
With ploop, they have to use separate filesystems in files on host much
like VMs do.)

My request not to vote for those who don't use Virtuozzo/OpenVZ appears
to have worked - getting very few votes. I am curious to see whether
posting about this ongoing poll in here will change the results.

Alexander

P.S. I don't normally top-post, but for referring to a two year old
thread I think it's appropriate.

On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 09:30:38PM +0300, Sergey Bronnikov wrote:
> Hi,
>
> there was a mail from Kostya regarding status of SimFS in OpenVZ 7 -
> https://lists.openvz.org/pipermail/users/2016-January/006733.html
> Yes, OpenVZ 7 has limited SimFS support.
>
> Sergey
>
> On 18:10 Fri 29 Jul , Gena Makhomed wrote:
> > Hello, All!
> >
> > openvz_readme.pdf:
> >
> > "Limited simfs support (feature provided as is). (OVZ-6613)"
> >
> > https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6613
> >
> > "Need to remove simfs stub module"
> >
> > https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6752
> >
> > "Need to remove simfs stub module"
> >
> > Status: Open
> > Priority: Major
> > Resolution: Unresolved
> > Fix Version/s: Vz7.0-Update1, Vz7.0-Update-next
> >
> > ============================================================
> >
> > simfs support will be removed in future versions of OpenVZ ?
> >
> > --
> > Best regards,
> > Gena

[Konstantin Khorenko]

On 07/03/2018 10:00 PM, Solar Designer wrote:
> Hi,
>
> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
>
> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336
>
> Poll: Should @VirtuozzoInc reintroduce simfs support in
> #Virtuozzo/OpenVZ 7? If you don't use Virtuozzo/OpenVZ, don't vote.
> (With simfs, containers use directory sub-trees on host filesystem(s).
> With ploop, they have to use separate filesystems in files on host much
> like VMs do.)
>
> My request not to vote for those who don't use Virtuozzo/OpenVZ appears
> to have worked - getting very few votes. I am curious to see whether
> posting about this ongoing poll in here will change the results.
>
> Alexander

Just to make it clear: basic "simfs" exists in vz7,
it still works, just tried it.

https://lists.openvz.org/pipermail/users/2016-January/006733.html

--
Best regards,

Konstantin Khorenko,
Virtuozzo Linux Kernel Team

> P.S. I don't normally top-post, but for referring to a two year old
> thread I think it's appropriate.
>
> On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 09:30:38PM +0300, Sergey Bronnikov wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> there was a mail from Kostya regarding status of SimFS in OpenVZ 7 -
>> https://lists.openvz.org/pipermail/users/2016-January/006733.html
>> Yes, OpenVZ 7 has limited SimFS support.
>>
>> Sergey
>>
>> On 18:10 Fri 29 Jul , Gena Makhomed wrote:
>>> Hello, All!
>>>
>>> openvz_readme.pdf:
>>>
>>> "Limited simfs support (feature provided as is). (OVZ-6613)"
>>>
>>> https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6613
>>>
>>> "Need to remove simfs stub module"
>>>
>>> https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6752
>>>
>>> "Need to remove simfs stub module"
>>>
>>> Status: Open
>>> Priority: Major
>>> Resolution: Unresolved
>>> Fix Version/s: Vz7.0-Update1, Vz7.0-Update-next
>>>
>>> ============================================================
>>>
>>> simfs support will be removed in future versions of OpenVZ ?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>> Gena
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> ***@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
> .
>

[Solar Designer]

On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 11:04:38AM +0300, Konstantin Khorenko wrote:
> Just to make it clear: basic "simfs" exists in vz7,
> it still works, just tried it.
>
> https://lists.openvz.org/pipermail/users/2016-January/006733.html

Hmm, yes. It works - just without quotas and revealing the host's
device name inside containers. I admit I didn't recall this detail when
I posted the poll yesterday, only rediscovering this thread later.

Quoting that message of yours that you linked above:

> What should be done further (that's what you can help us with):
>
> 1. Take project quota kernel patches (which Stas Kinsbursky alredy ported to vz7 kernel
> some time ago), apply them to current vz7 kernel - you'll get the kernel able to manage
> project quota.
>
> 2. Need to add project quota support to appropriate userspace tools: quota-tools and e2fsprogs
> see details at https://bugs.openvz.org/browse/OVZ-6619

Where are those kernel patches already ported by Stas Kinsbursky?

The userspace tools patches as linked from OVZ-6619:

https://github.com/ddn-lixi/project_quota_ext4_utils

This sounds like something a distro should manage to merge and maintain,
and maybe you will in VzLinux as well?

With this, we'd be missing second-level quotas (per-user quotas inside
containers), yet it'd be a major improvement compared to the current
state of having no quotas at all.

Meanwhile, the Twitter poll got 20 votes in 24 hours. The results are:

35% No preference
45% Yes, re-add simfs
20% No, ploop alone is fine

(This is not counting the mailing list votes.)

Right before I posted about it in here, we were at 10 votes with:

50% No preference
30% Yes, re-add simfs
20% No, ploop alone is fine

Personally, I think that having a straightforward upgrade path for
existing users of older OpenVZ is very important, and it's currently
lacking. That's a problem for the project's future as it's losing a
large fraction of its userbase.

Alexander

[John]

My vote is simfs for a migration path.

> That's a problem for the project's future as it's losing a
large fraction of its userbase.

I agree here but the issue is more than simfs. The development in factory (with factory repos being auto enabled twice in my memory) with only 4 set kernel releases a year is more of an issue.



John Quaglieri
InterServer Inc

> On Jul 4, 2018, at 9:57 AM, Solar Designer <***@openwall.com> wrote:
>
> That's a problem for the project's future as it's losing a
> large fraction of its userbase.

[Solar Designer]

On Wed, Jul 04, 2018 at 02:20:47PM +0000, John wrote:
> I agree here but the issue is more than simfs. The development in factory (with factory repos being auto enabled twice in my memory) with only 4 set kernel releases a year is more of an issue.

One way to interpret this is that OpenVZ upstream is leaving the job and
opportunity of maintaining a distro with up-to-date OpenVZ 7 kernels to
the community, or to any existing distro that would like to offer that.

If/once such distros appear, it'd be OK.

Alexander

[Scott Dowdle]

Greetings,

----- Original Message -----
> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
>
> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336

I do not have/want a twitter account so I'll vote here. You don't have to count it if you don't want to.

[ ] No preference

[ ] Other (explain)

[ ] Yes, re-add simfs

[x] No, ploop alone is fine

TYL,
--
Scott Dowdle
704 Church Street
Belgrade, MT 59714
[phone] [home]
[phone] [work]

[Narcis Garcia]

Same as me about Twiter, but:

[ ] No preference

[ ] Other (explain)

[x] Yes, re-add simfs

[ ] No, ploop alone is fine



El 03/07/18 a les 21:46, Scott Dowdle ha escrit:
> Greetings,
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336
>
> I do not have/want a twitter account so I'll vote here. You don't have to count it if you don't want to.
>
> [ ] No preference
>
> [ ] Other (explain)
>
> [ ] Yes, re-add simfs
>
> [x] No, ploop alone is fine
>
> TYL,
>

[Сергей Мамонов]

Hi!

+1 for "Yes, re-add simfs"
from twitterless me,


2018-07-03 23:48 GMT+03:00 Narcis Garcia <***@actiu.net>:

> Same as me about Twiter, but:
>
> [ ] No preference
>
> [ ] Other (explain)
>
> [x] Yes, re-add simfs
>
> [ ] No, ploop alone is fine
>
>
>
> El 03/07/18 a les 21:46, Scott Dowdle ha escrit:
> > Greetings,
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
> >>
> >> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336
> >
> > I do not have/want a twitter account so I'll vote here. You don't have
> to count it if you don't want to.
> >
> > [ ] No preference
> >
> > [ ] Other (explain)
> >
> > [ ] Yes, re-add simfs
> >
> > [x] No, ploop alone is fine
> >
> > TYL,
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> ***@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>



--
Best Regards,
Sergey Mamonov

[spameden]

We're moving away from OpenVZ7 due distribution lock-in, though still using
OpenVZ6 on some Debian hosts.

But, as for the poll, sure simfs should be there! Especially on small ssds
it's a must.

[x] Yes, re-add simfs

2018-07-04 0:06 GMT+03:00 Сергей МаЌПМПв <***@gmail.com>:

> Hi!
>
> +1 for "Yes, re-add simfs"
> from twitterless me,
>
>
> 2018-07-03 23:48 GMT+03:00 Narcis Garcia <***@actiu.net>:
>
>> Same as me about Twiter, but:
>>
>> [ ] No preference
>>
>> [ ] Other (explain)
>>
>> [x] Yes, re-add simfs
>>
>> [ ] No, ploop alone is fine
>>
>>
>>
>> El 03/07/18 a les 21:46, Scott Dowdle ha escrit:
>> > Greetings,
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> >> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
>> >>
>> >> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336
>> >
>> > I do not have/want a twitter account so I'll vote here. You don't have
>> to count it if you don't want to.
>> >
>> > [ ] No preference
>> >
>> > [ ] Other (explain)
>> >
>> > [ ] Yes, re-add simfs
>> >
>> > [x] No, ploop alone is fine
>> >
>> > TYL,
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Users mailing list
>> ***@openvz.org
>> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Best Regards,
> Sergey Mamonov
>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> ***@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>
>

[Torsten Müller]

+1 for "Yes, re-add simfs"

Thank You

Am 03.07.2018 um 22:48 schrieb Narcis Garcia:
> Same as me about Twiter, but:
>
> [ ] No preference
>
> [ ] Other (explain)
>
> [x] Yes, re-add simfs
>
> [ ] No, ploop alone is fine
>
>
>
> El 03/07/18 a les 21:46, Scott Dowdle ha escrit:
>> Greetings,
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> FWIW, I am running this Twitter poll today:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/solardiz/status/1014124174523150336
>>
>> I do not have/want a twitter account so I'll vote here. You don't have to count it if you don't want to.
>>
>> [ ] No preference
>>
>> [ ] Other (explain)
>>
>> [ ] Yes, re-add simfs
>>
>> [x] No, ploop alone is fine
>>
>> TYL,
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Users mailing list
> ***@openvz.org
> https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>

[Narcis Garcia]

Same here, but using Devuan for OpenVZ6.


El 03/07/18 a les 23:18, spameden ha escrit:
> We're moving away from OpenVZ7 due distribution lock-in, though still
> using OpenVZ6 on some Debian hosts.

[Jehan PROCACCIA]

Hello

virtuozzo7 based on centos7 (as I understood) is good to us
I think it is still possible to deploy openVZ7 on other distribs, probably painfull though ...add packages manually and patch kernel !

regarding the subject of this thread , simfs has the advandtage to have the filesytem of the Container as a directory tree on the host
that allows for incremental backups to be run on the hosts without over heating the backup server, whereas the ploop file change globally which make backup much more heavy .
perhaps there's a workaround, but I understood tha ploop FS has lot of advantages:
https://www.lowendtalk.com/discussion/37153/openvz-simfs-vs-ploop
http://openvz.org/Ploop/Why => not found anymore !? has it been moved ?

if it's not hard for the dev team to maintain simfs stable in virtuozzo7 (at least without quota support) that would be a +
so I'll vote +1
but if there's a way to optimize incremental backups with ploop , simfs will not be valuable to me .

regards .

----- Mail original -----
De: "Narcis Garcia" <***@actiu.net>
À: "OpenVZ users" <***@openvz.org>
Envoyé: Mercredi 4 Juillet 2018 07:51:55
Objet: Re: [Users] simfs support

Same here, but using Devuan for OpenVZ6.


El 03/07/18 a les 23:18, spameden ha escrit:
> We're moving away from OpenVZ7 due distribution lock-in, though still
> using OpenVZ6 on some Debian hosts.
_______________________________________________
Users mailing list
***@openvz.org
https://lists.openvz.org/mailman/listinfo/users